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Mizuno Replication

Keep up to date with experiments based on the work of Dr. Tadahiko Mizuno right here. The current unique high pressure and temperature experiment is sponsored and supported by Professor Jean-Paul Biberian and Pierre Clauzon

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Mizuno produces 15% at high Voltage!

Written by Mathieu Valat on .

The test we made yesterday with Jean-Paul Biberian was interesting because the system showed a clear production of excess energy with 450V under 5 bars of the order of 15%.

This is good news as this is the first time this cell has shown a COP of over 1. It appears that higher voltage in a high pressure environment is a good approach to achieving positive results.

Further tests are necessary to address any remaining doubts about these results.

Some improvement has been made to the feedthroughs, so the system will be more robust moving forward and not suffer the problematic failure of key elements that occurred in the first run.

We are only able to perform these tests as and when key sponsors have time.

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+2 #9 robiD 2013-07-03 09:37
Mizuno's cell is a nightmare from the point of view of measurements compared to any other cell type.
The cell has many variations, but basically there is an electric discharge inside an electrolyte with plasma ignition.

The main problem is the correct measurement of the input energy because with the plasma ignition the current is highly and rapidly variable. You need spectrum analyzers and careful analysis of the data in a wide spectrum (not so simple to be done in a correct way).

Iorio and Cirillo did experimentation on a Mizuno like cell and at the beginning they claimed an excess heat of 20% but after many attempts and accurate measurements,co ncluded that there was no excess heat. They find out that the spectrum covered by the input power extends over GHz so even the system they used lately for data acquisition with a frequency sampling of 500KHz was not enough accurate. They did deep investigation in 2008 using a TEK2792 spectrum analyzer and an HP4195A:

"measurements realized through a spectrum analyzer coupled with a EMI antenna showed frequency band hit at about 300MHz with energy distribution up to some GHz"

Independent replication attempts about the Mizuno-Ohmori's cell had been done in the past by the EarthTech International (in collaboration with Mizuno) but no excess heat had been found.
I write the link on order to find detailed and hopefully useful informations for you:
(see the Mizuno part in the page)
+1 #8 Robert Greenyer 2013-07-02 18:28

We are exploring higher energy and pressure regimes in the US in the CTC and similar experiments - however wet cells like these are a very different animal.
0 #7 Robert Greenyer 2013-07-02 18:21
@Andreas Van Rooijen

I forgot to say - once all parameters can be accurately tracked there is still the fact that these cells don't work for very long periods and so there is always the criticisms derived from that. This is the real challenge facing these types of cells becoming a lab rat. Powders and wires can be stimulated, triggered and treated to iterate and build understanding and we can show we can produce cells that produce very little excess when not treated right or damped into submission - in these apparatus, the signal jumps out. The noise is huge in Mizuno experiments, data wise and laterally!
0 #6 Robert Greenyer 2013-07-02 18:14
@Jamie Sibley

This is all about current density and plasma ion energetics. Pressure and voltage are key to exploring these parameters more fully and this unique high pressure cells purpose is just this.

In previous Mizuno type cells, the inability of the apparatus to operate at high pressure and elevated temperatures (well above 100ºC) limited J-P B to lower input voltages. This is why this experiment is exciting.
0 #5 Robert Greenyer 2013-07-02 18:08
@Andreas Van Rooijen

He has been a weekly regular in the Mathieu's MFMP outpost of late which is great, but also accounts for the gaps in development on this cell. After the initial structural failures, the modified cell should be quite reliable moving forward and there is plenty to experiment with.

It is great that we have J-P B promoting and actively involved with this work as he brings such great experience with these kind of experiments to this unique apparatus.

The nature of the input power makes these kinds of experiments hard to measure and quantify and it needs a trained eye. What we might like to do is open up these complexities to the crowd and seek opinion on how to categorically nail the cumulative input power so that we can be more sure about reporting COPs of this level and higher.

It is easy to measure the weight of water lost with the scales, it is relatively easy to measure the temperature of the vessel and the pressure. The challenging part is integrating the input from the PSU over time accurately.
0 #4 Paul 2013-07-02 18:05
Better to ask if other experimental configurations, such as Ni powder, might be inserted into the Mizuno apparatus?
0 #3 Jamie Sibley 2013-07-02 18:03
A possible explanation for excess gas production:

From the viewpoint of current only, the Mizuno cell does appear to produce more gas that should be possible. However, from an energy standpoint, operating the electrolysis cell over 1.45 volts results in wasted energy as heat. It would be more efficient to run the higher input voltage through a dc-dc converter before entering the electrolysis cell. For example, providing 1A at 100V to a Mizuno cell might produce 1.15 units of gas, but taking that 100 watts of power, stepping it down to 1.5 volts would give 67 units of gas. I propose that the high velocities of the conductive electrolyte solution are somehow operating as a chemical step-down transformer and delivering more current to the electrodes that the input current to the cell, albeit at a lower potential. In this case, there would be no new physics involved.
0 #2 Paul 2013-07-02 16:57
If the apparent level of excess energy continues, will the high voltage/pressur e regime be applied to other experiments?
0 #1 Andreas Van Rooijen 2013-07-02 15:14
It is great to see that Prof Biberian is taking such an active role. I hope that you soon can tell whether any doubts can be addressed. Could this test be the lab rat for third party's?

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