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So you want to really help get the fire started?
Frustrated that you have so much to offer the project?
This is your home. Here you will soon find a range of projects related to the MFMP. Each mini project will have a defined goal and the mode of working will be live and open.

How do I take part?

  • Set up a Gmail account
  • Register on the QuantumHeat forum and using your Gmail address
  • Put yourself forward for a particular project giving an overview of the skills you have relevant to the project by sending us a mail using the green "+" to the right or from within the document itself at the top upper right (include your Gmail address in both cases).

You will then be given access to the LIVE linked google docs associated with the mini project and be able to start collaborating.

People who are not actively working on the mini project can still watch the projects documents evolve and do research and post contributions in the comments.

New Fire triggering/killing, potential means and equipment design

Written by Robert Greenyer on .

In any statistical process, if a restraint can be broken, given enough time, energy and a particular set of circumstances, there will be outliers that will meet the conditions for an event to occur. Like a thief trying to steal gold from a bank - sometimes the laundry bag is in the right place, other times a tree falls onto the perimeter wall - or - he gets handed the tools to tunnel through to the booty.

LENR experiments are about encouraging specially prepared transition metal structures to let Hydrogen or Deuterium come inside, this is called condensed matter. But people in a house does not a party make. There needs to be some energy to get it going and occasionally when the house is pumping and the guests are dancing, participants get together. Sometimes there needs to be a catalyst for things to really happen, like the right banging tune or the right cocktail to be drunk.

Even then things can move pretty slowly, sometimes it is not until the stripper, gatecrasher or some other unexpected entrant comes into play that it all kicks off... hopefully the police don't come and put a downer on things. 

The annals of LENR are peppered with tales of loaded active material being jump started into life by the application of some transient influence. Essentially, one needs to knock whatever stability remains in the excited condensed matter in such a way that their is a far greater chance of something desirable happening.

In this mini project, we want anyone and everyone to scour the literature for and their own ingenuity and insight for ideas and equipment design that might allow activation and acceleration of the LENR process.

The working document

As ever - sign up to the mini-project as described on the main Collaborate page.

We look forward to co-authoring this with you.

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0 #40 Robert Greenyer 2013-02-08 10:45

I have added you to the working document. Great to have you on board.

If you have a new concept for triggering please add it as a short overview in the main document.

If you have a specific apparatus or more detailed protocol, add it into the appropriate appendix and reference it (you may have to create an appendix, please use existing ones as guideline)

Happy collaborations!
0 #39 rememberkevinomalley 2013-02-08 03:29
I tried to set up a gmail account to collaborate as the instructions state but the system blocked me.

new email

signed up on Vortex as

It says the name is already in use because I donated but I'm trying to transfer this LENR activity to

other activity on Vortex is under and it's blocking that also.
0 #38 AlanG 2013-01-28 18:46
Piantelli was recently granted an EU patent on his LENR process. The patent document is comprehensive and detailed, worth reading in its entirety:

I see Bob Greenyer has already commented at E-Cat World on Piantelli's use of Argon to stop the reaction, so MFMP principals are well aware of the patent. For the rest of us it's a good summary of the "state of the art" in the Italian camp.
+1 #37 Ryan Hunt 2013-01-28 15:07
The ionization of hydrogen discussion is particularly interesting. When we created the 1.1 version of the cell, we ran the leads for the blue channel and the red channel through separate pass-throughs specifically so we could run them at different potentials and create a plasma between them. We haven't had time to work on that, yet, as we've been fully occupied doing the basic replication. I do have a lot of curiosity about using electric potential to drive hydrogen into the wire, or provide extra electrons or a lack of electrons to the system.
+1 #36 Giorgio 2013-01-27 16:25
@Ron B#35
The ionization of hydrogen occurs only during the discharge if you want to mimic thyratron behaviour. In this case the required power depends only from energy stored in capacitor and from the number of discharges per second.
With 1kV charged 1uF capacitor at 0.2Hz the average required power should be 0.1W and peak discharge power can easily reach tens of kilowatt levels.
+1 #35 Ron B 2013-01-27 00:49
#34 Giorgio
How many watts do you think we could get into the cell by keeping the gases ionized?
0 #34 Giorgio 2013-01-26 17:33
@Ron B#33
I think that with some minor modification the cell may act as an
"hydrogen filled" Thyratron that discharge an high voltage (kilovolts) low inductance capacitor bank (< 1uF total). You shoud add a "grid" near active wire for the discharge triggering, and an anode. The active wire in this case acts as a "warm" cathode. The anode should be wound in the opposite sense of cathode
to minimize the inductance of discharge path.
0 #33 Ron B 2013-01-26 15:10
#32 Giorgio 2013-01-26 00:03

I mean, given the current hardware setup would it be possible. i.e. could we disconnect the power wires once the cell was up to temperature and then connect enough high voltage to get the cell to ionize the gases. If it's possible, what do you think of the merits of such an experiment?
0 #32 Giorgio 2013-01-26 08:03
@Ron B
"Would it be possible to ionize the gases inside the cell as a trigger?"
Yes: hydrogen is used in Thyratrons and Krytrons:



"The gas used in krytrons is hydrogen:"
0 #31 Ron B 2013-01-25 23:20
Would it be possible to ionize the gases inside the cell as a trigger?
+1 #30 Robert Greenyer 2013-01-25 10:34
@Ecco and Giorgio

Some good ideas from both of you, please consider requesting to be added to the main working document.

I suggest that design proposals are added in this way, under a particular class of potential trigger/kill method, designs should be referenced as an appendix.

I have moved Dieter Seeliger gas tank proposal into Appendix G01, this means many ideas and plans can be incorporated and developed whilst keeping the core document short and accessible.
+1 #29 Giorgio 2013-01-25 07:44
@Ron B:
Yes, very interesting:
"Selective Reversible Hydrogen Leakage Controller (SRHLC) is used as an source of extra-pure hydrogen for storage, transportation of hydrogen and for sustaing its stable pressure in various devices including those having aggressive gaseous environment (eg in thyratrons, copper vapour and metal halogenides lasers). "
+2 #28 Ron B 2013-01-25 02:29
Great website Gi, did you see the Selective Reversible Hydrogen Leakage Controller (SRHLC) at that same site?
+1 #27 Giorgio 2013-01-24 21:56
Another very interesting solution for high power pulse: Hollow cathode tubes:


Another one is TRIGGERED spark gaps:

+1 #26 Giorgio 2013-01-24 21:14
My proposed avalanche trigger:


and DSRD trigger:

+2 #25 AlanG 2013-01-24 18:21
re. spark plugs - Godes and others suggest that fast ride time and high current density combine to shock the loaded lattice enough to overcome the coulomb barrier for hydrogen fusion. Details differ between theories but not the basic concept.

Suitable trigger pulses could be generated by a common automotive CD ignition module. Slew rate is typically limited by coil inductance but the spark gap gives a very fast current rise time (
+2 #24 Ecco 2013-01-24 15:41
As for additional triggering method,s, there's also Defkalion GT's spark trigger. Not many details on this except DGT-provided papers/presenta tion. They make it look a very complex thing to accomplish, but in practice (to be confirmed) it appears that for their prototypes they used common and readily available components such as automotive spark plugs. A disadvantage is that spark plugs have a reportedly low endurance under such use.

See here:

And also here:
+1 #23 Robert Greenyer 2013-01-24 15:12
Well done people. Excellent first full day since we kicked this one off. Already some of the thinking is colouring our future plans.

If you haven't signed up yet to get edit rights - when you are in the document in read only mode - you can request access to is with your google ID - that is the fastest way.
+1 #22 Robert Greenyer 2013-01-24 06:27

That is a good point! Maybe wear gas mask and will have to keep some Amyl Nitrate handy...

Hydrogen Sulphide is good as it has the good bit we already have in the cell (hydrogen) and the claimed killer.

More thinking is good though - keep up the good work.

@Ron B

In an ideal world yes - but if we have run an apparently successful experiment well beyond chemical - this is just icing on the cake.
+1 #21 Ron B 2013-01-23 13:27
#20 Ecco 2013-01-23 04

I would think the preferred way of stopping the reaction is one that would allow us to start it again easily, possibly some electronic method (dampening field). It sounds very difficult of an idea but I thought I'd throw it out there to see if anyone has ideas.
Short of that would it be possible just to remove the fuel rather than poison the cell? (ie shut off the current and evacuate the cell? )

On the triggering, I'm liking the EMP approach that's been brought up. It's a passive approach (which is good) but it takes a large amount of power (which is bad) but the power only lasts for a short time.