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Goals and strategy for social funding - suggestions for discusson

on .

The MFMP is here to help show and promote to the world a new form of energy, in its various forms. The project is set up in such a way that it is able to independently think without having to meet the goals of a shareholder, the dictat of a government or sensitivity of an academic body. It is protected from many of the challenges that have held back exploration of this technology in the past by its flexible members, contributing followers and the nature of open approach. Having said all that - we still need to raise funds to enable ongoing research and here we discuss our strategy for crowd funding!

The perfect experiment and beyond

Celani's wire has the potential to form the core of the perfect New Fire experiment for people all over the world to explore LENR. The beauty of Celani wire, is that it is a form of material that can be easily quantified and methodically explored. Understanding what makes it work will enhance control of the reaction etc.etc.

The project has also had a directive to promote the technology and encourage other players to be open about what they are doing. We have experienced that when we have a major development or announcement, other players have come forward with reports or videos or our releases have oftentimes been hijacked by the commentary of others. We actually love this and want to encourage competition in this space, we want to see the world wake up, recognise, invest in and deploy this technology in its many guises.

Crowd funding goals

Now that we are comfortable that we will be demonstrating something of real value soon, we wanted to share with you the planned approach to crowd funding that we have developed over many months should we get to this point. We will be publishing our crowd funding pitch proposal for people to review in the coming days.

Our approach is to aim low to give us the best chance to comfortably finish the internal experiment design and testing - say £50k, then have an initial stretch goal of £150k for minimum of 3 fully supported replications and then a second stretch goal after that of up to 10 funded and supported replications. We have to bear in mind that supplying the rewards and fees may cost over 30% of the headline figure.

Base goal

Target would be to finish the development of an LENR ( ideally New Fire ) experiment that is very hard to refute and suitable for replication.

Stretch Goal 1

Produce, facilitate and distribute a minimum of 3 international independent replications.

Stretch Goal 2

To spread that replication across the world and to follow and promote up to 10 experiments.

Stretch Goal 3

Buy a 1MW E-Cat assuming it can be... if not possible or funds insufficient, moneys go into further research into, or distribution of, other players technology.

The 3rd stretch

We are planning a 3rd stretch goal as you can see above. In preparation for this, we asked Rossi last year, face to face in Switzerland, could we have some e-cats to live test and he said that lack of certification would not make it possible. Then we said could we buy a 1MW plant for a military rehabilitation center or something similar and essentially he said yes and liked the idea. So, here is what we are thinking, we know that whatever we raise, we will put it to great and efficient use either doing primary live research or maybe better supporting the independent replications we enable, making promotional materials and lobbying government and industry. However, we were thinking if we could raise £1.3m - we do all our intended research, but then seek to purchase a 1MW unit from Rossi, we would expect the money to be held in escrow, so no risk of loss, transfer occurs if unit is delivered and proved to perform. Whilst protecting his IP, we would then have a unit that we could open to the public - and first up would be MFMP donors. The whole process from ordering to operation would be published as is our nature.

This would prevent any loss of momentum in our social fundraising if an independent report was published or other combative media activity was pursued... indeed - it could add significant momentum as it would likely be the fastest way any of us could actually see for ourselves a version of the New Fire in a practical application. If there are problems at e-cat order time or there is a failure to deliver, then we have some strong facts to form judgements on - all the while the money raised would be protected.

If Rossi cannot deliver for any reason or we raise more than we need for our Celani replications but do not achieve enough to purchase a 1MW unit then we already have meetings scheduled with Brillouin and Defkalion in Early April. These companies business model is to protect IP and sell licences to drive development of core technology and applications. We would offer to site our data aggregators in their facilities and monitor them for a number of weeks with the live data published through our established channels - they gain credibility that would likely bring them more licence income without any risk to their IP. If they refuse this offer then it might raise questions. Essentially, we would carry out independent live experiments on their "black boxes" in their facilities under their supervision at no cost to them, so there is nearly no plausible excuse for them to deny us - there would only be upside to participating and downside to not participating. We could even offer the same to Rossi - if we did not raise requisite funds. We would obviously seek wide opinion on what other detectors we would need to have in the test rooms to ensure no other forms of energy transfer.

Why this is important

We are seeing something really interesting and potentially amazing on an energy density basis with the Celani wire - we hope that the next tranche of tests will settle the debate we have encouraged and we will have a great tool for further investigation around the world. That deals with the "is it true/repeatable?" question and would kickstart serious international research leading to proper understanding. It does not deal with the "is it useful yet?" question, and that is the basis for the approach we are suggesting above - where we offer free live exposure to the very people that currently claim to have useful implementations.

We feel there is a lot of mental energy being wasted on the "is it or isn't it debate". If we can show - "look, here it is in the lab" - and "there is an example of working practical energy generator" versions of which will be yours in 5/10/15/20 years in your home, individuals and governments can plan accordingly. Public and private money use will be optimised and everyone is ultimately a winner, no more so than the poor and the environment.

So the strategy is to critically test claims across the board, to have a plan where we all win whatever the truth.

In summary, our social funding priorities for this campaign are

1.  Conclude Celani replication and the development of an incontrovertible experiment

2.  Enable independent replications of this incontrovertible experiment

3.  Work within the stated restrictions of other technology providers to provide better evidence of their claims

Openness, honesty, integrity and credibility are our DNA, our ethos, we want to maintain that and not have it called into question. We want to deliver real answers - you are all critical to making that possible, please let us know your thoughts on the above approach.


0 #39 Robert Greenyer 2013-03-29 23:21
@Andreas Van Rooijen

Good - just checking! :-)
0 #38 Andreas Van Rooijen 2013-03-29 18:55
@ Robert, I am aware that you (nor the MFMP) do not intend to break it open or reverse engineer it. Nor do I advocate such a thing. I would consider that to be a waste of time. :-)
+1 #37 Robert Greenyer 2013-03-29 18:30
@Andreas Van Rooijen

We never intended to break it down and in fact can't as the 1MW units are actually sold on a lease basis - a 'buyer' never actually owns them.

We would not want to break one down as it may restrict our options for developing our own technology in an open source way. In addition, it may leave us open to litigation which is simply not worth it.
0 #36 Andreas Van Rooijen 2013-03-29 16:23
1) I can "reassure" you, taking apart a water boiler is not a criminal offence. ;-)
2) You can't monitor those devices from a distance (this can be simpel avoided by using a Faraday cage)
3) I don't think Rossi has any IP to protect, but paradoxically, he has to hide his "invention" from the world to hide that fact.
-1 #35 clovis 2013-03-29 16:04
Al, you obviously don't read about this subject all that much, it 's plain silly to think that Dr. rossi would let people take his ip, if you try and take one apart you would be setting your self up for prison time, each unit will be monitored, he alone controls his ip or device, this team is out to find what is happening with lenr and to develop a data base for others to follow, quit trying to side track this wonderful work, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
0 #34 Robert Greenyer 2013-03-28 01:32

We hear you loud and clear, review others but do not waste precious resources on them. Focus on our replication goals and powder experiments and further develop our Live Open Science hardware and software toolset for general scientific endeavour.

Thanks loads for your time thinking about this. Look out for the proposed Kickstarter introductory pitch document on Friday, we will ask for your critical thinking on that too.

Thanks for working with us to get our strategy and messaging right - you guys are awesome!
0 #33 Robert Greenyer 2013-03-27 23:06
@Roderick Vos

You make some valid points, as we are likely to see the operations, the answer to those questions will be evident.

We have had regular contact with people at UOM - they have been unable to provide resources to date but they have given advice.
0 #32 charlie tapp 2013-03-27 15:51
@ robert greenyer how about this i also have given up on rossi the only reason i follow any of this is to find some understanding in one of my own projects makeing hho were for some reason my bolts going into my reactor got supper hot and melted the pvc container. no high amperage or any kind of explanation untill i read about hydrogen / metal interactions.i trust what you guys say so why not go and meet with anyone you can look at the things they are doing, mabee get a presentation were you actually see their claims tell us whatever you can, then you will see a different response from the crowd. i think everyone here would believe you
+4 #31 Andreas Van Rooijen 2013-03-27 14:49
Quoting Edwin Pell:
Developing an experiment that works and is low cost has great value.

Do not get sucked into the Rossi blackhole. It is a waste of time. It is something I will not support.


@Robert Greenyer, You know my point of view from our email exchanges. I agree with Edwin Pwell. Let's do fase 1 and 2. Don't waste time and or money on fase 3. Also, mentioning Rossi as a goal could scare people away.
+3 #30 Dieter Seeliger 2013-03-27 11:48
I think it should not be our goal to prove the promises of Rossi and his competitors.

If they have anything, it is way below their claims !
Let`s first focus on the base goal and build a Celani replication which is unrefusable !

Don`t waste time and money !

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