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First, I want to say thank you to all the folks following this experiment and contributing suggestions and helping look at data.  I have some more data for you to help me look at.  

Impedance of wire: The resistance of this wire has changed significantly more than Celani's original wire. R/R0 is now about 0.837.  This wire is 300 layer wire.  Celani's original wire in his demonstration was 100 layer wire.  



The temperature rise above ambient ambient has increased one degree over the last 8 hours.  Overall, it has slowly increased by 2 or 3 degrees.  A small part of that is from a small, as of yet, unexplained increase in the P_in.  Much of the choppiness in this graph is a result of a known fluctuation in the voltage from the power supply.

The Voltage looks like this below with a 0.2V sag periodically.  This is a known problem that we have a fix for, but because we came up with the fix after most of the calibration was already done, we decided to wait till the next experiment to implement it.  The root cause is the power supply temperature cycling.  The large dip is when the cooling fan kicks on.  The fix is half hardware to put in less temperature sensitive resistors and half software to put a closed loop control on the voltage control.  Meanwhile, we tolerate it till we think it is clearly worth changing.  This voltage sag is reflected in


Other Things: 

  • Don't necessarily believe the excess power calculation, yet.  I would consider it to be still in the noise till we rule out other potential causes of higher temperature readings.
  • We have a slight Hydrogen leak.  Unfortunate, but we should be able to tolerate it, though.  


All this data and more are available here.  There are many, many questions that we have not had time to look at, yet.  I mean, who can think of a better way to spend their weekend, right?


H2Loading_12hrs.csv (2.7mb)  and H2Loading_12hrs.xls (6.3mb)


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0 #12 Ged 2012-11-11 17:54
That unexplained power_in increase is strange.

I wonder if something is happening to the heating wire, if it's resistance is going up. I found the equations I was looking for on Joule heating (aka resistance heating/ohmic heating) being that Q = I^2 * R (heat equals current squared times resistance). Since the Celani wire is not powered during loading, the culprit is probably the heating wire, maybe it is becoming a little brittle from the hydrogen (perhaps losing oxides, and thus becoming more resistant; since Nichrome has that chromium oxide layer). Those are just my thoughts though.

This is some cool data guys! Too bad the power supply is being a little noisy, but at least it seems to be relatively minor and consistent fluctuations.
+2 #11 Robert Greenyer 2012-11-11 13:16
@ Ecco

These things are all considered - but not part of the Celani Replication, only the extension. There are a number of papers that point to current pulse stimulation - maybe some high delta current/voltage could be effective and this will be something to explore down the road. It seams that in these experiments it is the initial delta spike that is important not the length of the pulse or decay, so people exploring this wire may find that very short big changes in power applied could drive a good reaction but with very low RMS power applied. That is one of the exciting and genius things about the Celani wire over other nano New Fire configurations - it is a simple conduction path so things like this and direct, through body RF signals can be passed (see piantelli patents for suggested frequencies).


Celani wants the multiple replications to explore these - and the more cells we can get out there - the faster this science can progress.

There is much work to do!

@ 123 Star

We are only in loading on our first attempted run. We do not think we are seeing any excess heat during this stage in the experiment.
0 #10 123star 2012-11-11 12:43
Could you please say what calibration data you used to compute what you call "P_out" in the datasheet?
For example if I "blindly" use data from Cal6 (the worst case) I no excess *temperature* even in T_mica! Using Power = 49.5 W I get T_rise_mica = 156 degrees which is more than ~ 152 degrees measured now.

Being skeptical, I'd expect (with the same input power of course)
- Hotter T_mica and T_well with the loaded wire w.r.t. the blank run
- The same temperature on T_glassOut in both the blank run and loaded wire (i.e. from this I would conclude that there is no excess heat, as Cerron, Zeballos et al. did).
0 #9 Ecco 2012-11-11 11:26
Regarding effect stimulation, have you considered PWM control of input voltage? It would be very interesting (and quite anomalous) if the reaction intensifies when using a duty cycle shorter than 100% (constant input).
+1 #8 freethinker 2012-11-11 11:23

Excellent stuff, again and again.

+1 #7 Robert Greenyer 2012-11-11 10:45
Interestingly, these current spikes may actually stimulate the reaction when running in the active loaded wire - however, they are extremely small.
+1 #6 Robert Greenyer 2012-11-11 09:35
Hi Sanjeev and 123star,

Thankyou for your attention and continued suggestions.

Yes 300 corresponds to the number of layers.

You can see Celani's paper here


0 #5 Ecco 2012-11-11 09:28
For next time I would suggest to adopt in these files an ascending ordering for data points (new ones on the bottom/ the end of file) rather than descending, and if possible to keep the time interval between each one constant so that one could use "counts" instead of handling directly time data for the X axis.

It seems that sometimes between each data point there is a 3 seconds delay rather than 2. It might actually be less than that due to possible rounding errors, but it's still inconvenient for certain uses nevertheless. It might be an idea to not limit time precision to seconds.
0 #4 Sanjeev 2012-11-11 08:02
If its due to fan then you can simply bypass the controls and keep the fan always on. But can also be a faulty capacitor because I can see the voltage/power rise slowly after the pulse.

I saw the csv file but couldn't figure out which one is current because all columns are titled Power Channel.... Anyway all show the dip. It doesn't look so good but it can be averaged or integrated in excel.

What does 300 layers mean? Will it also increase the output 3x ?
0 #3 Ryan Hunt 2012-11-11 07:17
The data is posted. Feel free to examine it. The glass temperatures are rising along with the Mica temp and the thermowell in the longitudinal axis of the cell. Here is the graph.
The thermal image will have to wait till tomorrow. I'm up way past my bedtime.
0 #2 123star 2012-11-11 07:06
Sorry typo in the previous message: "temperature of the casing"

Other people would consider mandatory a better calorimetry method (flow or instead envelop type).
I'd like to add that if we are checking the temperature of the casing it would be better to use an opaque casing so we are not missing power as visible spectrum radiation that of course won't heat the casing (but maybe this effect is negligible).
Also I'd like to repeat, we need a thermal map of the casing and not the temperature of a single spot.
0 #1 123star 2012-11-11 06:56
An important fact:

Did the authors of this experiment read Cerron-Zeballos , E., et al., Investigation of anomalous heat production in Ni-H systems. Nuovo
Cimento Soc. Ital. Fis. A, 1996. 109A: p. 1645

They measured a hotter "rod" but no increase in the temperature casing!

Subsequently, Piantelli in 1998 claimed an increase in the external casing, too but it's not very clear. See:

So, I'd say, focus on the external casing which is the "checkpoint" for heat flow. A hotter mica doesn't allow to conclude anything, IMHO.

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