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Celani Replication

Keep up to date with our replication of experiments based on Celani's cell right here.
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24h Stable Run Write up

on .

From Friday, Nov. 16 at 18:00 local time to Saturday, Nov. 17 18:00 (US Central Time) the test cell was operated at 0.5 Bar H2 and a constant Voltage in of 36.92 V.  During this time, while no excess energy was discernible, we did achieve a higher level of stability in the cell than at any time previously.


The Ambient temperature was controlled to between 22.78 +/- 0.09 C  

The voltage was much tighter than last week.  It was steady within a 0.006 V range.  

Despite these being so interestingly boring, there were a few notable things that did change.

The impedance of the wire rose.  The little rise at the very beginning is where there cell was still warming.

As the impedance rose, the P_in fell accordingly.  Still, it was only a decrease on the order of 100 mW.

Perhaps the most interesting thing about this run, though, is that the pressure of the Hydrogen gas was decreasing despite being below atmospheric.  In our previous tests starting at 0.5 bar, the pressure at the end came back every close to the starting pressure when the cell was cooled again.  It appeared to us that the soft silicone on the outside of the wire pass-through allow gas out under pressure, but maybe wouldn't let air get in - like a tiny check valve.  Or maybe some other spot on the cell has leaks small enough for Hydrogen to wiggle out of, but big enough for O2 or N2 to penetrate in.   Another potential could be hydrogen affecting the pressure transducer.  It has performed well  so far, as far as we can tell.

One thing to give credibility to the dropping pressure measurements is the T_mica, which gradually rose over this time period.  As the pressure of the gas decreases, the thermal conductivity also goes down, which effectively insulates the mica from the glass.  That might account for the gradual increase by 0.5 C.

The T_mica rose even despite the power in going down slightly.  The gas being more insulating seems to be a better answer than any LENR effect because the excess power calculation did not show any significant rise.  In fact, it showed a drop off.  

It turns out that this is from a drop in the T_GlassOut of about 1 degree.  Perhaps from the lower gas pressure?  The curious thing is how it seems to be opposite the T_Ambient, which would be a correlation I could not explain.  One thing I try to keep in mind is that the more variables one is watching, the more chance for spurious correlations to appear.  Is this spurious or meaningful?

From here we decided to sweep the temp ranges where we saw decreases in wire impedance previously.  That right up comes next.

Any suggestions on the interpretations here?  Some real-time peer review would be great.







0 #9 clovis ray 2012-11-25 13:20
hi, guys just signing in ,and keeping an eye on you :lol:
0 #8 Ryan Hunt 2012-11-19 04:30
I think the two spikes you are seeing correspond to power drops. When the power is turned down, the power in drops much faster than the temperature of the cell does. The result is that the excess power calculation shows large positive till the temperatures settle.
0 #7 Eric Walker 2012-11-19 04:27
If I may correct myself -- both spikes are preceded by endothermic intervals, if the graph for P_xs is taken at face value.

But I'm led to wonder -- shouldn't P_xs average to zero, rather than -2, as it currently is, assuming this is the real baseline and the behavior of the cell is not actually endothermic during these intervals?
0 #6 Ryan Hunt 2012-11-19 04:26
@ Eric Try doing an alt-Print Screen and pasting the screen as an image. It's a bit clunky, but that will include the date in the picture.
0 #5 Eric Walker 2012-11-19 04:22
On an only tangentially related topic -- I note that when you look at a 15 minute average sample rate over the period 11/18/2012 08:15:46 to 11/18/2012 20:15:46, there are two large spikes in P_xs. The second is preceded by an endothermic interval and the other is not.

In this regard the data viewer does not include the configuration for the graph in the URL; it is using HTTP POST rather than HTTP GET. This makes the URLs prettier, but it means that you cannot copy and paste the URL for a graph into an email or a comment. Perhaps your developers will consider putting this information in the URL to facilitate sharing graphs of the data.
0 #4 Ryan Hunt 2012-11-18 22:31
@123 Star - Good suggestion. I may have to wait till tomorrow to get Malachi to make that one. He has it all set up. But it makes me think we should have that as a data viewer option to see the latest temp/power points plotted on that kind of chart.

We will be putting together another cell with Pyrex. If I could get enough wire I would wrap 100 meters into the cell and insulate the cell to get about 1000 times more signal to noise. And then put it in a calorimeter, too. We'll see what we can do.

@ Ecco. That chart doesn't mention how it changes with time at a fixed temp though. Once it loads to saturation, though, you are probably right.

@ Ivone - Thanks!
0 #3 Ivone M. FitzGerald 2012-11-18 19:02
The detail if maintained will destroy the sceptics should excess heat be demonstrated later.
0 #2 Ecco 2012-11-18 18:14
Wire impedance seems normal according to the chart at pdf page 53 here, linked on a comment some time back (I don't remember who did it, sorry). See the line corresponding to the 50% copper-nickel alloy: http://www.nist.gov/data/PDFfiles/jpcrd221.pdf

The impedance of such alloy is expected to drop a bit, then rise again with increasing temperatures. My educated guess is that once an active Celani wire can't load any more hydrogen, it starts acting (electrically speaking) as a normal alloy and therefore has its electrical resistance slightly increasing proportionally with temperature (after a brief dip).

By attempting loading it at a higher pressure (starting at ~7.5 bar), R/Ro should further semi-permanentl y decrease until the wire can't take any more hydrogen.

In his ICCF17 presentation it appears Celani shows mostly wires at their first loading attempt. Optimally pre-loaded ones probably behave like MFMP's.
0 #1 123star 2012-11-18 17:40
I'd like to see an updated version of the graphs like the the ones I saw in the article "Is i or isn't it"

Other ideas:
Wrap the glass tube with some turns of tin foil (not wrinkled) and redo the calibration+exp erimental run. See if this help to reduce the t_glassout spread. The t_glassout spread is very unfortunate since that should depend ONLY ON P_IN an not on the temperature/emi sson spectrum of the wire.

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