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Celani Replication

Keep up to date with our replication of experiments based on Celani's cell right here.
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Celani cells: ready to run again [UPDATE#2 - 1000+ layer wire in on a live test run]

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Now the major parts of the new calorimetric bench is built and one chamber has been put into a stabilised temperature configuration. A new iteration of the dual differential Celani cells are ready to run again. This time there are a few minor modifications to the cell.

In order to reduce the downtime between two runs, new banana connectors were soldered to the end-leads of each of the cells. Two millimetre diameter banana connectors were used that should take around eight Amps, which is plenty for this experiment.

The heating wires are made of tungsten. Their diameter is 100µm (0.1mm), this was donated by Jean-Paul Biberian from his personal stock. The aim is to enhance monatomic hydrogen generation by heating up the tungsten to large temperature. The effect of this modification on the results is uncertain as the constantan alloy is already supposed to have a catalytic effect on hydrogen dissociation.

The length of the wires inside the cells are shorter than before. This will allow them to be supplied with higher power using the same power supply. The approximate length of the wire is 65cm. As a consequence, the mica supports have been adjusted to enable this modification.

The new calorimetric bench is quite big, so it was necessary to make space in the room for that. So the setup was moved toward the side of the room, where the temperature is expected to be quite stable. 

The new constantan wires are both black, in one of the dual cells there are Celani wires which are covered with oxides (CuO). In the other, a BLOCK constantan wire is mounted. This is similar to the original ISOTAN but has a manganese oxide layer on its surface, acting like a protective coating against oxidation.

The protocol has not yet been decided yet, so if you want us to test variations of electrical power cycles or something else, as ever, let us know below.

UPDATE#1 - Calibration done and gamma detector running nicely

The cells have been calibrated and yet another NaI scintillator has been commissioned - but this time it is working very nicely. Expect some examples of its output in the next few days.

So perhaps as early as next week we may finally be able to look to see if there are any gammas released during shock cooling/H2 injections and what energies they are.

UPDATE#2 - 1000+ layer wire in on a live test run

Mathieu has placed an unused but old 1000+ layer wire into the cell to test it and the scintillator.

The 1000+ layer was prepared by Francesco some time ago based on commercially available Block Constantan wire, the control cell has the same Block Constantan wire but without treatment.


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0 #13 Ged 2015-08-16 04:09
Question though. Is the "A" cell the one with the 1000 layers? Would love to get some additional details on the set up.
0 #12 Ged 2015-08-16 04:04
Wow, this thread has old comments. It's very nostalgic!

Good luck on this new run guys! Exciting to get back to MFMP's original design roots. Great control too. Should make some easier comparisons.

Yep, definitely a lot of nostalgia.
0 #11 Edwin Pell 2014-12-29 05:28
Mathieu, congratulations on the birth of your new child. It is important work as we will be needing young researchers in 30 years.
0 #10 Edwin Pell 2014-12-29 05:24
Quoting Ecco
"These made me think of Mathieu's observation of repeatable weak gamma bursts after injecting fresh hydrogen inside his powered and loaded Celani cell."

The one and only positive result I have ever gotten was on first loading hydrogen gas on nickel powder that had been at high temperature and under vacuum for several hours. I saw a well above background radiation reading that persisted for about 30 minutes. The radiation had to penetrate 1/8" steel to make it to the detector. The level was very safe but still up to 100 times normal background. This was on never before used powder.
0 #9 Ged 2014-12-06 00:15
Significant, and help to unify the practical theories on LENR. Temperature shock/flux, magnetic stimulation/"wi ggling"... they all could be hitting on the same mechanism of expansion and contraction dynamics of the metal lattice working against the loaded hydrogen to act like some sort of quantum hammer and anvil. In that case, second derivatives would probably be the most important... How fast the temperature changed, how sharp the magnetic stimulation fluxed... It could help explain the idea of how an E-cat can run on electricity or natural gas.

I know these are all really old ideas we were tossing about way back at the start of these ventures, but seems they are still kicking about just as much now as then.

The question then would be how could LENR continue at a stable temperature equilibrium where there is no sharp temperature or field shocks? Unless, by that "up and running" point, the very LENR reactions themsevles are bagging along often enough and hard enough to drive the shock factor necessary to set off the next reaction and so forth (like neutrons in a fission reaction). That would have a lot of implications on how to maximize stability and control, if true.

There's a lot of ideas flying around these days, so it'll be interesting to see how the practical aspects play out as we view the data across these numerous types of set ups.

It's so great to be a part of this venture, if only while mostly lurking! And thanks to Ecco, for relentlessly and faithfully driving ideas on, even over all this time.
0 #8 Robert Greenyer 2014-12-05 00:25

you are right about optimising the design... but if we can see a clear and consistent - on demand - spectra, I think that would be very significant.
0 #7 Ecco 2014-12-04 19:22
@Robert Greenyer: It would be very interesting if a correlation between gamma emissions and the temperature drop over a set amount of time were found. A cell design which maximizes direct contact between fresh, cooled gas and the heated active material would probably help, though.

Come to think of it, I remember reading something along these lines before in one of Piantelli's patents.
0 #6 Robert Greenyer 2014-12-04 18:47

That is our leading hypothesis, precisely because of this previous work.

3 Times the volume of gas was let into the cells from a can at room temperature. This would have cooled the gas further. The highly loaded wire is flash cooled causing compression of the lattice.

One of the suggestions we have discussed is pre-cooling the H2 canister.
0 #5 Ecco 2014-12-03 11:58
@Robert Greenyer: that's great, because speaking again of Gamma emissions, today I've come across these slides during my daily LENR-watch routine:


prelas.nuclear.missouri.edu/.. ./...

prelas.nuclear.missouri.edu/.. ./...

They're about neutron emissions from thermal shock of cooled, loaded (deuterated) metals.

These made me think of Mathieu's observation of repeatable weak gamma bursts after injecting fresh hydrogen inside his powered and loaded Celani cell.

That might have been due to the thermal shock, in retrospect.

I believe it might be of interest to start researching affordable and safe methods for inducing stronger thermal shocks on the active wire inside Celani cells!
0 #4 Robert Greenyer 2014-12-03 01:00

Mathieu expects to be back of paternity leave on Friday to do a second calibration of the cells.
0 #3 Ron B 2014-11-11 09:46
It's great to see the Celani cells back in action! Here, here on the gamma detection, that should be an objective for sure. I still would love to just have some unexposed film laying close by with a nice metal target over the film to cast a shadow from any gamma or x-rays.
+1 #2 Robert Greenyer 2014-11-05 08:50
As ever, very clear points made Ecco, thank you - this is in in with what we hope to achieve with this experiment.
+6 #1 Ecco 2014-11-05 05:20
Since the gamma detector is now working, It might be a good idea to try triggering gamma emissions like you did in the past, if you believe the active wire is expected to produce excess heat or otherwise generate LENRs.

A possible variation on this experiment could be using a progressively increasing deuterium concentration in the H2, which according to Celani and others should increase gamma emissions. It would be easy to test if it does, and to cross-check the results with different instruments if it's a reproducible effect.

If clear gamma emission signals can be consistently reproduced, that will be enough to trigger the interest of mainstream scientists who don't believe that LENR are an existing phenomenon. Skeptics could bring in their own radiation measurement instruments and H2/D2 gas sources and check out for themselves in a noninvasive manner.

This would also have the advantage of avoiding more never-ending debates about controversial and deceivingly simple heat measurements over which there will be no consensus as long as non-standard techniques and methods will be used.

Furthermore, if you can trigger gamma emissions at will, that will also save you at least half the costs on cell expenses (no differential/du mmy cell needed).

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