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The Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project is a group dedicated to researching Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (often referred to as LENR) while sharing all procedures, data, and results openly online. We rely on comments from online contributors to aid us in developing our experiments and contemplating the results. We invite everyone to participate in our discussions, which take place in the comments of our experiment posts. These links can be seen along the right-hand side of this page. Please browse around and give us your feedback. We look forward to seeing you around Quantum Heat.

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TOPIC: trying to understand the basic energy balance

#471 6 years 8 months ago
trying to understand the basic energy balance

bobicanprogram's Avatar
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I really like your concentric tube calorimeter design. It incorporates the main idea of forcing the heat flux through a thin conductive layer that I've been discussing in this thread. The temperature difference across this layer should calibrate very well for heat flux. In addition you have IR impervious Al tubing surrounding this conductive heat flux sensor arrangement.

Good stuff. Can't wait to see your results from this apparatus.

bob
PS.
You may find that if in fact all heat is leaving the apparatus radially through this conductive layer that you no longer need to worry about controlling the outside tube temperature. ie. the delta T calibration for heat flux will be the only variable which matters as long as the ambient conditions are approximately steady.
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#490 6 years 7 months ago
trying to understand the basic energy balance

bobicanprogram's Avatar
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I tried to respond to the Apr 2 blog entry which discusses the Euro cell changes, but it won't accept anything I put in the name field.

So here is the comment I tried to post there:

==============
If you eliminated heat transfer out of the system by IR and forced all heat to leave via conduction radially through a thin layer, you should eliminate all dependence on ambient temperature. ie. the heat transfer would only depend on the difference in temperature across that conductive layer.

I hate to see you guys wasting precious resources and time on insulating lab rooms etc. when with minor mods to the apparatus those changes become unnecessary.

bob
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#501 6 years 6 months ago
trying to understand the basic energy balance

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Hey Bob, those are some nice points you make and I agree completely. This energy balance is really important. I have seen very accurate calorymetry using a styrofoam bath with a metal box in it, the metal would lose all its heat to the water, the water would lose no heat htrough the walls.

Then you pump the warm water out and cold water in the difference in water temperatures is 99.99% of your heat loss all depending on how good your insulationis.

It would be really easy to test.

Also bob if you cant comment just try to log in first. then you dont need to fill in anything except for your comment. (so no name).
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#505 6 years 6 months ago
trying to understand the basic energy balance

bobicanprogram's Avatar
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Thanks for the posting tip. I'll try that next time.

The beauty of the conduction calorimeter that I've been advocating is that it is both simple and eliminates dependence on the external environment. ie. the heat flux depends on a delta T across a thin membrane and is independent of the actual T at either side. While this type of calorimeter would not be as accurate as the bath type that you are proposing, I think it would be simpler to replicate and operate. Moreover I believe it could give the world a verifiable and definitive yes/no answer that this group needs to move foward with their mission.

One of the "worries" with the existing Celani experimental protocols is that they all use IR transparent glass cells. You can't easily calibrate away or control for these IR heat losses. You end up with needlessly complex radiative/ convective heat balance equations which depend on difficult to measure (or difficult to control) variables. eg. internal H2 pressure, external room temperature. More importantly the H2 absorption into the active wire may alter the IR radiation characteristics for a given calibration input wattage and could produce a "false positive" excess heat reading as a result. The recent hydrocarbon result falls exactly into this "trap" in my opinion.

It is always preferrable to design an experiment where the variables are either controllable or simply drop out of the heat balance equations. In a properly designed steady state conduction calorimeter all the internal variables such as wire emissivity, H2 pressure, convection and radiation are inside the black box and simply fall out of the steady state heat balance equations. Likewise the external environmental temperature and air currents surrounding the cell similarly fall away and the delta T is the only variable which remains. Delta T is very straightforward to instrument, calibrate, and measure.

bob
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#723 6 years 5 months ago
trying to understand the basic energy balance

bobicanprogram's Avatar
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In part II of this video (coldfusionnow.org/melvin-miles-on-calorimetry/) Melvin Miles shows off a calorimeter which looks very much like the conduction calorimeter that I have been advocating. While this calorimeter was used for an electrochemical LENR study it should be readily adaptable to the Celani wire apparatus. I also notice that the whole apparatus is immersed in an isothermal water bath.
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#917 1 year 8 months ago
trying to understand the basic energy balance

HazratDeewana's Avatar
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Hii i am new here and i agree wth you.
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