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Protocol V1.2: The Steady State Comparative Experiment [UPDATE#1 - The wire phoenix]

Geschrieben von Mathieu am .

I wanted to take advantage of my out-of-the-lab vacation that will last until the end of ICCF. I quickly came up with a new experiment that would complete the current protocol and test again the results that Celani was showing last year at ICCF and NI week.

In principle, this protocol allows a direct comparison of two identical cells in the same environment under the same pressure. First the two cells are identical in geometry and instrumentations. Secondly, they are in the same physical environment but only one is equipped with one wire, the other is using nichrome. Thirdly, the valves between the two are open to let them be at the same pressure all the time!

In order to support any claim, the two cells are set to 20W, then 30W under vacuum. The measured values of the thermocouple placed outside the cells are then verified to be identical under such power input. These value are given in the logbook.

This also intend to complete protocol V2, and verify the wire placed in the cell B all this time sees the same resistance drop as it should; despite the fact that a mistake in the configuration of the system turned it into a lightbulb filament for few seconds, potentially melting the nano particles on its surface.

Nevermind, if it doesn't work tonight I still have tomorrow to do one cell with nichrome only and stuff the other with some spare wire I have here.  ;)

Of course, it would be better to have calibrations of the cells using only nichrome wires but the amount of time that I have left is too short to do that, and actually, this can be done LIVE, hold you breath.
On the graph of Cell EU1.3: Protocol V1.2, the values of T_ext1 and T_ext2 are subtracted to the ambient temperature, then averaged together, then subtracted between cells. By doing ups and down in power we will be able, first to define the power vs temperature curve using the dummy cell, but also the evolution of this excess power as we increase/decrease in power input.

Super simple experiment, is it?

The duration of such test depends on the tightness of the cells to hydrogen leakage. Now, we just have to cross fingers   ;)


UPDATE#1- The wire phoenix

So the wire we thought had been toasted, well, it seams to be loading very well! So, this along with a leak, probably means the multi-wire test will have to wait until after ICCF18 - in the meantime, now that cell A has the Nichrome wires installed, we are left with doing a steady state with what we thought was a dud wire. See the loading graph here, interestingly, while the power remains constant, as the resistance changes, the volts and current have to adjust to maintain same power, only when the current moves up does the wire suddenly drop in resistance. Cell temperatures seam to be creeping up.

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0 #26 Robert Greenyer 2013-07-10 13:47
@Ron B

I think that is a great idea (having an inert gas in a differential like this) - as I said in the other blog thread...

Hydrogen is smallest molecule known to man - it leaks - some say Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars loose 10% of their fuel tank a day!

B
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0 #25 Ron B 2013-07-10 00:05
Ecco,
You know, if we could demonstrate that the hydrogen remains in the wire under high pressure inert gas, it might be possible to do side by side test with inert gas.
Prepare the two cells, one with a hydrogen loaded wire and the other without.
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0 #24 Ron B 2013-07-09 12:51
On Cell EU1.3B the data is starting to look quite a bit like the results from the Maco/Mica cells from last year. The resistance is climbing while the pressure is dropping and there's a steady march up of cell temperature.
It would appear that this is either the conductive/conv ective heat transfer issue or an indication that the cell is starting to produce excess heat. Right?

07/06/2013 16:00:00 07/09/2013 12:36:36
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0 #23 Ron B 2013-07-08 19:32
One common thread of all the experiments is that hydrogen pressure is dropping. Is there some assumption that there's been a leak in all the cells constructed? It would sure be nice to know if this is a weakness in the design or something that's part of the reaction. As an engineer, I wouldn't be able to go past a leak in the system. It would have to be fixed since it can't be controlled in any way and that it would just add yet another variable to the many we already have.

Would you consider using a different gas in a test cell just to check for obvious leaks?
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+2 #22 Robert Greenyer 2013-07-08 19:26
@Sveinn Olafsson

The italian rock crushing research shows 10^3 more neutrons from crushed magnetite over background. This is an easy experiment to do and the evidence of transmutation is in the before and after sample analysis. The process is piezo (though no Hydrogen/Deuter ium loading). Given that Rossi was working with pyro electric crystals before his LENR research, the DARPA / NSF funded research from 2005 linked to below and the new Finnish claims there might be something to this. Should we ignore it when the potential benefits are profound.

Here is the rock crushing presentation of that research.

theatomunexplored.com/.../...

I have met some of the authors and we have been invited to replicate the experiments - of course, our DNA would require us to do it live with a video stream.

It is the combination of resonantly excited condensed matter in specific combinations with triggers that give rise the events claimed. Our job is to get to the bottom of this in an open way.
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0 #21 Sveinn Olafsson 2013-07-08 18:38
Piezoelectricit y/Pyroelectrici ty is a long way to create neutrons to trigger a LENR.

First option is to just wait for a cosmic ray to create a neutron in the experimental chamber, it will take a while.

Simpler way could be to cover radioactive Am241 alpha source from smoke detector with Beryllium powder and keep it mixed within the experiment.

The Am241 source (4000 alpha particles/sec) can maybe only give one neutron/sec from the 9Be(alpha,n)8Be reaction

At least the neutron is in right place at right time, one stochastic variable less in the experiment.

So is AmBe, RaBe powder mix needed in the LENR soup ? ;-)
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0 #20 arian558 2013-07-07 12:50
Quoting Robert Greenyer:
@arian558

I also think that Rossis previous work on Pyroelectric materials could have something to do with the secret sauce in his e-cat.

Another paper about this in journal of applied physics.

fire.pppl.gov/.../
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0 #19 Robert Greenyer 2013-07-07 07:49
@arian558

I also think that Rossis previous work on Pyroelectric materials could have something to do with the secret sauce in his e-cat.
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0 #18 Robert Greenyer 2013-07-07 07:15
@Arian558

We are getting there - there is never been a more appropriate time to launch a world wide open effort to make this science provide its potential benefits to the whole of humanity, for the people, by the people.

This last pdf, the one in letters to Nature - using pyroelectric crystals, links to

- Italian rock crushing experiments (piezo electric)
- the finnish patent application (piezo electric/pyro electric)

All about accelerating particles at the nano size to kinetic energies in specially prepared states such that advantageous effects are triggered.
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0 #17 arian558 2013-07-07 07:01
Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

fire.pppl.gov/.../
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+2 #16 Robert Greenyer 2013-07-07 06:36
@arian558

We had already started testing with piezo additives and will no doubt add the pointers suggested herein to our experimental path. We need to focus on ICCF18 and our key fundraising push because we want to massively increase the number of researching bodies collaborating in this endeavour openly.
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0 #15 blaze 2013-07-07 03:04
Check out 0261in the patent and on for examples of (I assume) concrete implementations . Watch out for the gamma radiation tho :)

[0261] The following non-limiting examples illustrate the present technology.

EXAMPLE 1 [0262] Nickel nanopowder having an average particle size of 10 nm was is mixed with pyroelectric lithium tetraborate L12B4O7 crystallite powder having particle size range of about 100 nm - 1000 nm. L12B4O7 crystallite powder was prepared by mechanically crushing commercial L12B4O7 crystals to powder. The powder mixture is placed to the reaction cartridge. The reaction container was connected to a hydrogen gas line receiving hydrogen gas from a pressurized hydrogen gas bottle. The reaction container was also connected to the cooling fluid circulation. The reaction container was pressurized with hydrogen gas to 20 bar (gauge) and slowly heated to 400 °C.

[0263] It is assumed that the pyroelectric crystallite powder was polarized by the temperature changes within the reaction material. The temperature of the reaction material was altered with external control (cooling fluid circulation) to keep the pyroelectric crystallite powder polarized. The system started to produce gamma radiation that had specific gamma photon energies.
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0 #14 Ryan Hunt 2013-07-07 02:57
@ Arian558 - Interesting patent. Filing a patent based on an idea is totally different from having made a device work. Has he said anything about having applied his theories successfully?

I would be very interested in playing with this theory if someone wants to study it up and design an experiment. We can easily do 20 bar and 400C. Who wants to help figure out what we need to do with the pyroelectric lithium tetraborate?
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0 #13 blaze 2013-07-07 01:08
Nickel nano powder plus pyroelectric lithium tetraborate plus hydrogen under pressure heated up to 400 degrees and pressure up to 20 bar ...

That experiment would be cool :)
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0 #12 arian558 2013-07-06 08:31
More about Pekka Soininen R&D manager at Beneq Oy

,+358405827898

Beneq Oy, based in Finland, is a leading supplier of industrial production and research equipment for thin film coatings used in solar photovoltaics, flexible electronics, strengthened glass and other emerging applications. Industry-proven Beneq equipment and thin film experience is used for improving the efficiency of crystalline silicon and thin film solar cells, producing transparent conductive oxide (TCO) coated glass and making touch screen glass more durable. Beneq has introduced several revolutionary innovations within its coating technologies, including true roll-to-roll atomic layer deposition (ALD) and high-yield atmospheric aerosol coating (nAERO®). www.beneq.com
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0 #11 arian558 2013-07-06 04:56
Pekka Soininen a scientist from finnish apparently replicated e-cat and filled a detailed patent for it
his name is on patents for number of companies, including Nokia , Another company he’s worked for is Beneq Oy, which is a company specializing in thin films/atomic-la yer-deposition/ nanotech and microclusters…

download patent

4shared.com/.../...
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0 #10 Robert Greenyer 2013-07-05 20:01
@Charlie Tapp

Interesting, would you like to make a small report about that? Are you considering research in this field?
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0 #9 charlie tapp 2013-07-05 15:59
@robert greenyer 304 stainless has about 8 percent nickel in it probably where your hydrogen is going.whene i was working on my stanley meyers type cell made from stainless i had lots of unexplained heat on my feed through bolts melting the sch 80 pvc pipe, not high enough amperage to do that i did not think. i thought the 5 psi presure was causing something in resistance or something electricaly related while investigateing on the net i found you guys
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0 #8 Ecco 2013-07-04 10:21
Do you have time to put a black body object at the same distance from both reactors and see if it heats up differently?
I think you proposed this test some time back. It would probably have a relatively large error margin, but it might reinforce your apparently positive results.
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0 #7 Robert Greenyer 2013-07-04 10:15
@All

Hmmm, the wire seamed to load... what to do?
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