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		<title>QuantumHeat.org</title>
		<description>Discuss QuantumHeat.org</description>
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			<title>Ecco says:</title>
			<link>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2849</link>
			<description><![CDATA[This page uses imperial units but gives a rough idea of what to expect with heat losses from an open water container: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/heat-loss-open-water-tanks-d_286.html]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Ecco</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sun, 12 May 2013 12:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2849</guid>
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			<title>Ecco says:</title>
			<link>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2848</link>
			<description><![CDATA[If the aim is calculating energy through the rise in water temperature over time, it's important that the container is well insulated. An ideally insulated water container (= no heat loss) would make it possible to calculate output energy just by knowing the amount of water and its temperature over time. As far as I understand heat loss from a real world open water tank occurs mainly through evaporation and radiation from the water surface, and the higher the temperature is, the worse this problem gets. So it's important that the container is closed and of course also well insulated. So, what you want is an insulated tank/barrel with a closed lid, containing a relatively large amount of water (50-100 liters) and a relatively large goal temperature difference from ambient (for example 25-30 C), but not too large as to avoid having to deal with excessive evaporation losses. This would be a slow, but pretty "safe" experiment to perform.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Ecco</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sun, 12 May 2013 12:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2848</guid>
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			<title>Ryan Hunt says:</title>
			<link>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2792</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Lots of good suggestions in these comments for improving this experiment. Little details in this apparatus such as water interaction with the steel top where most of the heat flows, or in the stratification of the water temperature, or in drafts in the room cooling the cells differently will make big differences.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Ryan Hunt</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Thu, 02 May 2013 16:48:53 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2792</guid>
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			<title>bob says:</title>
			<link>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2790</link>
			<description><![CDATA[If you insulate the water buckets you will cause the water bath to reach higher temperatures before heat losses balance again. I don't see a gain in doing that. However what about adding a thermoelectric cooler to an insulated water bath system. That way you could cool to a fixed temperature and use the electrical power to the cooler to calculate heat flux out of your system.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>bob</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Thu, 02 May 2013 12:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2790</guid>
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			<title>Robert Greenyer says:</title>
			<link>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2764</link>
			<description><![CDATA[@Edwin Pell Thanks - and yes... submerge them! We are cautious in operation in case we break anything! We to look forward to taking several experimental threads forward. Please do not hesitate to offer up any ideas as to how we might improve this type of cell.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Robert Greenyer</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Mon, 29 Apr 2013 20:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2764</guid>
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			<title>Robert Greenyer says:</title>
			<link>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2763</link>
			<description><![CDATA[@Ecco We are right on it, though, purely because of the physical location of wires - this type of experiment may first occur in the Concentric Calorimeter ... and VERY soon!]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Robert Greenyer</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Mon, 29 Apr 2013 20:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2763</guid>
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			<title>Ecco says:</title>
			<link>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2759</link>
			<description><![CDATA[@Robert Greenyer: about update #1, in my opinion the answer to this issue can be as simple as using more 2L active wire inside the cell. A good start would be quadrupling the amount ie using 2 grams of it. Establish that there is an effect first, optimize it later.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Ecco</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Mon, 29 Apr 2013 19:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2759</guid>
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			<title>Robert Greenyer says:</title>
			<link>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2754</link>
			<description><![CDATA[@Ecco Nicolas is going to introduce a stirrer (with a motor outside the bath to remove any measurable energy input). A prop shaft will drive a propeller in the bath. The low pressure in the outer cavity between the glass and the steel is to insulate the main length of the cell so that lower power in achieves a higher wire temperature. I agree that it is likely for heat to be lost from the top of the cell and given this is easy to address by insulating the top - we could see even higher favourable disparity between the active and control cells after insulation has been applied (well, assuming that it isn't a heat loss artefact anyhow!)]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Robert Greenyer</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Mon, 29 Apr 2013 17:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2754</guid>
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			<title>Ecco says:</title>
			<link>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2750</link>
			<description><![CDATA[I think it might be useful to use a thermal camera to check for heat loss differences between both cells, if there are hot spots, etc.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Ecco</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2750</guid>
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			<title>Ecco says:</title>
			<link>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2749</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Swapping both cells and making sure that the water is well mixed is a good idea. I suggest checking with a dummy load if the water buckets' position in the testing room affects in any significant way their heat loss. Also make sure that the water temperature sensors don't "see" the glass tube (no need if the cells are being submerged in water with the external steel tube. This isn't clear from the photos). This kind of set up inspires way more confidence that the results are real, but since the preliminarily measured excess heat is still relatively small, extra care has to be taken in order to reduce the chance of errors. The good news is that this shouldn't be as complex as with previous cells. By the way, I got here through the most recent posting on E-CatWorld. The Steel&Glass cells section on quantumheat.org has a different RSS feed, so it didn't appear on mine: http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/follow/follow-4?format=feed&type=rss]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Ecco</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Mon, 29 Apr 2013 09:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.quantumheat.org#comment-2749</guid>
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